tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3503759181402329376.post790357638166793606..comments2023-09-07T11:05:17.339-04:00Comments on Ravenstone's Reflections: The Silence of Our FriendsDesmond Ravenstonehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11731355272768955344noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3503759181402329376.post-85737708999097788902013-04-03T22:08:16.357-04:002013-04-03T22:08:16.357-04:00When I started coming out as queer, I found alot o...When I started coming out as queer, I found alot of people reacting by saying I was telling them 'too much' and that they didn't need to know my 'bedroom secrets' even tho I wasn't telling anyone anything of what I did in bed or with who. I was just saying I wasn't heterosexual, and somehow to them I was flaunting.<br /><br />So I can see why some people, even liberal UUs, over-react to those who are polyamourous or kinky. They hear those words, they let their minds get overwhelmed with 'OMG what are they doing,' and perhaps project that onto the other person, even blaming them like many of us queers have been accused of 'flaunting.'<br /><br />Stand strong, kinky and poly UUs. Speak truth to power. And for the rest of you, if you can learn to accept gay/les/bi/trans/queer people saying who we are, you can learn to do the same for these, too.S Pnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3503759181402329376.post-56181751416664094932013-04-02T14:10:42.736-04:002013-04-02T14:10:42.736-04:00My heart goes out to your entire family. I wish m...My heart goes out to your entire family. I wish more UU congregations and ministers followed the example of mine. That is why <a href="http://leatherandgrace.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">Leather & Grace</a> exists -- to educate and advocate on behalf of so many kink-oriented Unitarian Universalists everywhere.Desmond Ravenstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11731355272768955344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3503759181402329376.post-72839854127378000692013-04-02T14:02:24.389-04:002013-04-02T14:02:24.389-04:00My family is made up of a triad- myself, my husban... My family is made up of a triad- myself, my husband and our submissive. We love and care for one another, we attend regular classes on building relationships and communication, and we all offer our unique talents and personalities to the relationship. We are stronger for our union with one another. The orientation between us is more than sexual, and it effects everything from how we run our household to what car we choose to purchase,how we view and interact with the world, who our friends are etc. <br /><br />Why should I be forced to introduce my submissive as "a friend" or as a "roommate". Why should I pretend that that the consentual Dominant/submissive dynamic that is implicit in us, and is such an integral part of our relationship doesn't exist. Especially in a spiritual community that preaches inclusion and understanding. <br /><br />We were card carrying,money and time pledging UU's. This is not the case any longer. I need to be able to be my authentic self within a spirital community. My husband and I owe it to our submissive to make sure she feels validated and included, and not like the outsider of our family. We were happy within the congregation, but could no longer continue to be a part of an organization that ultimatly didn't want us. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3503759181402329376.post-8232160050211195192013-03-29T19:41:16.614-04:002013-03-29T19:41:16.614-04:00Anonymous, good for you that your "very small...Anonymous, good for you that your "very small" congregation is open, but that's not always the case. You identify as a gay man- are you in a committed relationship? Do you call the man you love "husband" if you have such a person in your life? I know plenty of straight people who don't like when L/G people use "husband" or "wife" in such a manner. As a UU kinkster, my problem would be wanting to call my Dominant "Dominant" when I speak of Him to UUs who aren't close enough friends that I've told them His first name. Just in saying "my Dominant" to UU adults, I have been made to feel unwelcome in UU fellowships. When I say "my Dominant," I'm not talking about sex anymore than a gay man saying "my husband," but too many UUs act as if I have just talked about my bedroom behavior.Joelle Casteelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06916035794147846651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3503759181402329376.post-73905967677063841082013-03-29T19:37:49.360-04:002013-03-29T19:37:49.360-04:00First, we all need to be mindful that UU attitudes...First, we all need to be mindful that UU attitudes fall along a continuum. While some congregations like yours and mine are willing to expand their welcome, others are still hesitant about declaring themselves welcoming to GLBTQ folks. The only reason why the latter examples are shrinking is that the UUA is willing to speak up on the issue, and make it clear that gender-based attraction and gender identity are not barriers to being full and equal members.<br /><br />With that being said, I've heard from gay men and lesbians who, while welcome in their congregations, felt that the leadership there preferred to "keep quiet" about GLBTQ issues; while they were accepted as individuals, they told me of various ways that heterosexism remained rampant. As one person put to me, they felt the reason they were the only openly gay person there was because they were accepted <i>in spite of it</i> -- so long as the congregation didn't have to acknowledge it or talk about it.<br /><br />The reason for phrasing the word as "ignore-ance" is to highlight that it's about more than a lack of education, but a more pervasive lack of awareness. If you're only surrounded by "people like us," then it's easy to overlook -- to <i>ignore</i> -- "them." Which is quite a burden when you happen to be one of "them."<br /><br />As to your last question, that would take a lot of space -- but you could start <a href="http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com/2012/05/uus-kinksters-community-and-diversity.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>, then <a href="http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com/2010/07/leather-grace-part-i-being-prophetic.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>, <a href="http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com/2010/07/leather-grace-part-ii-pushing-limits.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>, <a href="http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com/2010/07/leather-grace-part-iii-playing-with.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://ravenstonesreflections.blogspot.com/2010/07/leather-grace-part-iv-for-those-who.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.Desmond Ravenstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11731355272768955344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3503759181402329376.post-78314877108045773742013-03-29T18:37:34.027-04:002013-03-29T18:37:34.027-04:00In the 15 year history of my VERY SMALL congregati...In the 15 year history of my VERY SMALL congregation, we have had an accepted triad; a transvestite who identified as heterosexual male but who dressed openly at all times in clothing traditionally ascribed to women; and open and closeted gay men and lesbians. I myself am a gay man. There has never been a question of acceptance among us. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the "ignore-ance" you write about. Can you elaborate? For example, what should I learn about "kinksters" that would be relevant to a faith community?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3503759181402329376.post-18742307164251235132013-03-28T07:32:19.127-04:002013-03-28T07:32:19.127-04:001) Why would you assume that it's all about ki...1) Why would you assume that it's all about kinky people coming out? Did you ever stop to think that a large part of the problem involves people being outed maliciously? Or being silenced when they try to correct misinformation about kink or polyamory (and that includes allies of kinky and poly people)?<br /><br />This is part of the double standard we face. Heteronormative folks can talk about dating, romance novels, "girls night out" and "guy stuff." But if those of us outside that privileged sphere mention similar non-sexual social, intellectual and/or spiritual aspects of our identity, suddenly we're accused of "flaunting" or "oversharing" or some other term. Why is it that our mere existence discomforts or even threatens you?<br /><br />2) This very same remark has often been made to LGBTQ people, to people of color who are tired of being told to leave their culture at the door, and so forth. It is easier said than done to tell people that, if we are seeking spiritual connection with "something greater than ourselves," we are not allowed to bring our entire selves into that sacred place.<br /><br />I suggest you re-examine your statement from the position of someone with a marginalized identity.Desmond Ravenstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11731355272768955344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3503759181402329376.post-63244064065312464402013-03-28T00:45:06.967-04:002013-03-28T00:45:06.967-04:00Why would anybody want to know about your kinky re...Why would anybody want to know about your kinky recreation? If you come to my congregation I hope you'll find that we are focussed on something greater than ourselves.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3503759181402329376.post-69990123917603592642013-03-25T18:42:59.296-04:002013-03-25T18:42:59.296-04:00Dear readers: I received a rather lengthy and dens...Dear readers: I received a rather lengthy and densely-composed reply which, while I was tempted to publish, was afraid that doing so would simply invite a prolonged debate. So, I've chosen instead to reply to one key point in this person's comment ...<br /><br />You ask: "What do you want out of this?" Very simply, that kinky and poly people who agree with UU principles can walk into any congregation, and be treated as full equals. Yes, I also want to see an end to discrimination against kinksters and polyfolk generally, but for now let's focus on improving our lot within UU circles.<br /><br />Now, here's where the theme of this post comes in: <i><b>None of this can be achieved so long as the UUA continues ignoring us.</b></i> You can't address fears and questions about polyamory, BDSM, or <i>anything,</i> for that matter, by acting as if poly and kinky people don't exist. If anything, continued silence only helps fuel the fire. And given that there is now increased discussion about kink and polyamory in mainstream media, the UUA's silence only reinforces the perception that our faith movement's leaders are "out of touch" with the rest of the world.<br /><br />As I said before: Acknowledge we exist. Learn all can about us. And don't just speak <i>to</i> us and <i>about</i> us, but <i>for</i> us.<br />Desmond Ravenstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11731355272768955344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3503759181402329376.post-38023460623354963262013-03-24T22:09:50.229-04:002013-03-24T22:09:50.229-04:00Thanks for taking the time to write this, Desmond....Thanks for taking the time to write this, Desmond. More people need to hear this message.Joelle Casteelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06916035794147846651noreply@blogger.com